Thursday, 22 May 2008

Mythbuster: The Great Immolate Debate

Myth: Including Immolate in your cast sequence increases your DPS?

Let me start by stating this up front - if you're not a warlock, move along, there's nothing to see here.

Still here? Ok, if you are any spec other than Shadow Mage, the answer is and always has been a definitive yes, you should always include Immolate in your cast rotation. The only spec that this is a question for should be the shadow mage, and I've touched on this before - only the shadow mage should have questions about whether casting something outside of shadow damage is worthwhile. Still, if you want some basis for that statement, read on, the numbers are coming, but understand that result would be even more so for you.

Right then, this is a topic that seems to come up every couple of days in the official warlock forums (or some unrelated thread gets hijacked and forced into that zone), and they all look very similar, something like...

Lock A: destruction is just about shadowbolt spamming
Lock B: *sigh* not again - if you're not including immolate you are nerfing your dmg, l2play nublet
Lock C: but i cast immolate once and my dog died
Lock B: well i cast immolate and one-shot most trash
Lock A: i one-shot your mother
Mage : we suck, nerf locks

etc etc etc

Warning - I am going to do some light theorycrafting here - just enough to make the point, not enough to take every calculation into account. Sorry, but it has to happen - if this causes your brain to slowly melt, then feel free to just jump down to the "Conclusion" section at the bottom, you're really not going to miss much, I just want to be thorough.

Setting the Scene:

Straight up, I'm going to ignore spell hit - I'm assuming we're all capped, and that 1% resist isn't enough to sway the figures one way or another. Secondly, I'm going to assume that Improved Shadow Bolt will on average give you a 10% damage increase overall. Due to the nature of how it works, its very hard to put an exact number on it, but 10% seems to get used widely around the web (and its a nice round number). I'll assume this example is in a raid with a fire mage and shadow priest for damage buffs.

In the spirit of keeping things simple, I'll assume 1000 spell damage through gear, and counting talents you have 25% crit. I'll also set this up as a raid environment with an accomplished Fire Mage (one that can keep the Improved Scorch debuff up) and a Shadow Priest (to keep Shadow Weaving and Misery up).

Lastly, spell damage coefficients - each spell you cast has an assigned multiplier applied to your total spell damage, according to a whacky formula. I'm just going to cheat and steal it directly from wowwiki here. All Shadow Mages must have Shadow and Flame Rank 5.

  • Shadow Bolt
SB Average Damage Base: 572
Bonus Damage from Gear: 1000 x 105.71% = 1057
Succy Sac'ed = 15% bonus to Dmg
CoS = 10% Dmg Bonus
Improved Shadow Bolt Average = 10% Bonus
Cast Time = 2.5 secs

Total Damage = (SB Average + Bonus From Gear) x Succy Sac x CoS x ISB Avg x Crit x Shadow Weaving x Misery
Total Damage = (572 + 1057) x 1.15 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.25 x 1.1 x 1.05
Total Damage (average) = 3273

Total Shadow Bolt DPCT = 3273 / 2.5 = 1309

  • Immolate
Direct Dmg Base: 327
Direct Dmg Gear Bonus: 1000 x 20% = 200
CoE: 10% Dmg Bonus
Total Direct Damage = (Direct Dmg Base + Gear Bonus) x CoE x Crit x Misery x Imp Scorch
Total Direct Damage = (327 + 200) x 1.1 x 1.25 x 1.05 x 1.15 = 875

DoT Dmg Base: 615
DoT Dmg Gear Bonus: 1000 x 65% = 650
CoE: 10% Dmg Bonus
Total DoT Dmg: (DoT Dmg Base + Gear Bonus) x CoE x Misery x Imp Scorch
Total DoT Dmg: (615 + 650) x 1.1 x 1.05 x 1.15 = 1681

Total Dmg: 875 + 1681 = 2556
Cast Time: 1.5 sec
Total Immolate DPCT: 2556 / 1.5 = 1704

Lets pretend for the sake of argument that you're the only lock in the raid so there's no CoE, and your only mage is a frosty. The maths still looks like this:
((327 + 200)x1.25+1265) x 1.05 = 2020
Total DPS: 2020 / 1.5 = 1346 dpct

Conclusion: Myth Confirmed!

The numbers speak for themselves - casting Immolate in a full raid buffed environment and letting its DoT component run the full length results in 1704 dpct, compared to Shadow Bolt's 1309 dpct. It is worth noting the difference in not having CoE and Improved Scorch up - 1346 dpct vs 1309 dpct; in which case its a very close call (meaning - make sure you give your mage the time to get their Improved Scorch debuffs up first, don't start your cast rotation with this).

Note that Shadow Mage cookie cutter builds don't have Improved Immolate or Emberstorm - both of these talents will skew the results even more in favor of Immolate. Also note that the Shadow Mage build is based around crits, and some nights you'll have the dice give you different results to other nights, but over a long enough period of time this should reflect your findings.

Addendum: I know there are many better theory-crafters than I out there, I am at best a rank amateur - if you see some issue with my maths, please let me know.

25 comments:

Nomakk said...

Thats extremely helpful and well thought out. I have always wondered if I found it in me to level the class I dislike seeing in bg's on all of my characters....if i should use immolate! :D Is it totally impossible to be a fire-lcok?

Logan said...

Nice work on the theorycrafting. The only wrench I can see in the argument for including immolate is the fact that many, many warlocks (particularly shadow mages) don't have the same shadow and fire damage.

Throughout my "career" as a lvl 70 warlock there has always been a gap between my shadow and fire damage because of the superior +shadow dmg gear out there. I always thought that as I progressed the gap would close.

Early on it was Frozen Shadow Weave. As I started replacing that piece by piece, I picked up more shadow gear in the form of Ritsyyn's Lost Pendant and Orb of the Soul Eater. As I replaced those trinkets with haste gear I picked up the Nethervoid Cloak and a Soulfrost enchant once I got an endgame weapon. I honestly can't remember a time when I didn't have at least 100 more +shadow damage than +fire damage.

I'm rambling... basically, I did the math for my current build using your formula, including the disparity between shadow and fire, and it still comes out in favor of tossing immolate into the cast rotation. I came up with these numbers:

Shadow Bolt - 1570.77 DPS

Immolate (w/CoE+imp scorch, etc - 1862.87 dps

Immolate (w/o CoE or imp scorch) - 1472.63 DPS

Immolate (w/ CoE but no imp scorch) - 1619.89 DPS

So basically it seems that it would be a good idea for me to include immolate in my cast rotation as long as I at least have CoE up, and definitely if I have imp scorch up, but not if neither are present.

I tend to think that as crit increases beyond 25% the scales will start to tip more toward only SB spam, both because crit benefits SB more (higher base damage + ruin = OMGWTFBBQ) and because more crit means more ISB uptime. I'm also wondering how haste factors in. I'll have to play around with the equations a bit to account for ~30% crit, 4-piece tier 6 bonus and 200 or so haste rating (not unreasonable for a Sunwell raiding build) to see if Immolate will at some point fall behind.

Gotta break out the calculator...

Chris said...

Nice article. It has convinced me to keep Immolate up a bit more than I currently do.

TeePee said...

@ nomakk lol thanks! er i think >.<
Firelocks are definitely viable and in perfect circumstances can actually out-dps a shadow mage in a pure tank'n'spank, but there is a lot of fine print involved, you're even less mobile and you're relying on some outside help to make it really shine - i made a post about it a while back here

@ logan - yeh as usual, correct on all points. I was trying to keep it as simple as I could, but you're definitely correct about shadow dmg usually being greater than fire on a lock's gear - I'm usually rolling with around 100 extra if not more. I just wanted to get the formula down really - i have to be honest, when i first started this post I was setting out to disprove it, ended up being really surprised. I'm also in your boat, with my numbers Immolate only pays off seriously if both CoE and Imp Scorch are up, but with our raid make up that should be most of the time.

Agreed with increasing crit moving things toward SB's favor - the direct dmg component of Immolate is such a small portion of its overall dmg that an increase in crit really wouldn't increase the total that much, but it really impacts SB dmg in a big way. Then there's the issue with the ISB debuff being up longer - that is the reason I've been sitting on this post so long, trying to factor in that isb debuff makes my head hurts (which is why I went with the flat 10% figure - obviously not strictly correct, but caters for it ok and I've seen it used elsewhere).

Lastly, haste would also have to lean things in favour of SB I would think as its doing the greater dmg with a longer cast time. working it back to dps with a shorter cast time would impact it more than immolate reducing its cast a little. That's a gut feel tho, I'll think about that some more.

@ chris - thanks! convinced myself as well :P

Logan said...

Basically I'm glad I've got some good math to go on now when people give me flak for throwing immolate up on a boss (even occasionally). There are still a LOT of people out there who are in that "no way, no how" camp when the I-word gets brought up. Now I can direct them to your site.

:)

aurance said...

You want to distinguish DPS vs. Damage per Cast Time. Shadow Bolt has same DPS and DPCT, but Immolate does not. The 1704 number above for Immolate is DPCT.

And you're correct, basically for all instances you want to cast the spell with the highest DPCT without clipping your DoTs, then next highest, the next, down to Shadow Bolt.

TeePee said...

@ aurance - yep, you're correct, i'll update my post shortly, it should be dpct. this post was aimed at shadow mage builds, and *most* don't use any dots at all - this was about showing that there is benefit in casting at least one of them, immolate, regardless of your build.

TeePee said...

@ aurance - sorry, last thought, this is also the one instance where casting the highest dpct first doesn't really apply. you want to give the fire mages a chance to get the Imp Scorch buff up before you put your immolate up, there's a large enough difference in the dmg that its worth changing the rules for this one spell (ie immolate)

Nic Williamson said...

Do you have any thoughts on corruption? I've recently respecced from fire back to shadow mage, and I'm not sure wether to keep using immolate or go with corruption because of my higher shadow damage.

TeePee said...

@ nic - good question, & that will probably be my next post; my gut tells me that its the shorter cast time on immolate that makes all the difference, but I'll put some numbers together soon to make sure, watch this space

Rarespawn! said...

I linked this post in my latest one, hope you don't mind. :P

TeePee said...

@ rarespawn - nothing but love :)

Saresa said...

Great post, and one which finally confirms all I have been saying to the people in my raids who quibble with me over the Immolate spell - just let me cast it gosh dang it! In my opinion, it can be pretty dull just spamming SB's anyway... Immolate at least adds some variety to the mix!

TeePee said...

@ saresa hehe - gosh dang it? :P sorry, just made me chuckle, thanks, i needed that, i'm still waiting for the caffeine to kick in /hug

Anonymous said...

You have already said your not the best thoery crafter but i was wondering about how haste would affect this. Not like a tiny bit here and there but when your gcd is 1 sec and immo is 1 sec and your bolt is 2. When bloodlust is up for example. How does it change it?

TeePee said...

@ anon - i'll put together some numbers with haste and see how they come out

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